First, a bit of trivia. Former Movie Fail contributor Michael Capodiferro is also a director and writer. Following graduation from the dramatic writing program at Hampshire College, he was hired as an assistant director and producer for the upcoming webseries, Spooners. 

Spooners: The Webseries is directed by Bryan Horch and is based on his award-winning short of the same name. Horch has devoted his career to effecting social change through film and television. His work has spanned comedy shorts, documentaries, PSAs and music videos. He is particularly interested in issues that face LGBT and deaf communities with a strong focus on human rights and reproductive health.

In the original Spooners, a gay couple heads out in search of a new bed. Unfortunately, the process doesn’t go as smoothly or discretely as either one might have wanted. The full short can be seen here:

I recently had the chance to sit down with Horch to discuss The Webseries, which is currently seeking funding on Kickstarter.

Søren

Hi Bryan, thanks for joining me.

Bryan

Thank you!

Søren

Before we get into Spooners, I’d love to hear about your background. How did you get into making movies?

Bryan

I’ve been doing filmmaking since I was a kid. I got a video camera in high school that I used to make short films with my friends in the neighborhood. Mostly short, ridiculous, middle school humor type of films. Then I went to Ithaca College and studied film, communications and sociology and in that time I kind of got serious. Like, filmmaking is a serious thing and it needs to be about social change and social justice issues and that sort of thing.

So after college I got into doing more documentary filmmaking. I worked for production companies that did films for the National Geographic Society and I worked on a couple of PBS documentary films. One of them is the Chicano! History of the Mexican-American Civil Rights Movement. And so I was involved in that kind of filmmaking.

And then I realized I wanted to work with people more. I really got into American Sign Language when I was living in Austin, Texas, across the street from the [Texas] School for the Deaf. I became an interpreter, so when technology advanced to the point where you could make your own films for pretty cheap, I got back into filmmaking as well as interpreting. I had my own production company and was still doing more documentary and educational films.

Søren

And how did that lead to Spooners?

Bryan

Well I remembered what I used to be really passionate and excited about was making films with my friends. Like getting together with a group of people, coming up with an idea, coming up with a script and making short films. So I started doing that, and I decided I needed some more help in terms of the narrative structure and everything.

I went to a program in San Francisco for screenwriting for a year where I wrote a feature-length film. And after that, I started thinking about just doing really tight, well-made shorts.

So I was doing this screenwriting workshop class, and at that time I was living in Amherst, Massachusetts. My partner and I realized we had been sleeping on our double futon that we’d had since college – for the past 10 years. It was time to upgrade.

Søren

(Laughs.)

Bryan

I was like, “Well, what do you do? How do you even buy a bed? I don’t even know where you start.” So I went into a chain bed store that was in the area and when I walked in there – there was nobody else shopping there – but the salesman was asleep on one of the beds. I had to clear my voice and get his attention. (Laughs.)

Søren

Oh wow.

Bryan

When he got up I asked him how you even begin looking for a bed, and he said, “Oh, well we have this new system over here that helps you through that process.” So I was like, “Okay, cool. Whatever it’ll take.”

So he brought me over to this bed and there was this old school computer hooked up to it. It led me through a series of questions, starting off with like, “How tall are you?” and “How much do you weigh?” And then it said, “Do you have a sleeping partner?”

I thought, “Oh that’s kind of a cool way of phrasing it. Like someone you sleep in the bed with – a sleeping partner.”

Søren

Sure.

Bryan

So I said, “Yes.” And the next question was, “Is your sleeping partner a male or a female.” And I was like, “Wow, that’s kind of progressive…”

Søren

(Laughs.)

Bryan

“…or is it data mining me?” Like for commercial purposes –

Søren

Advertising, yeah.

Bryan

To exploit me later in some way. But I was like, “My sleeping partner is a male” and clicked on that and the response was, “You have a male sleeping partner!” So it also had a voice that went along with the visuals.”

Søren

Geez.

Bryan

Like holy s**t, this is weird. What is going on? And at that point other people came into the store and they were milling around. So there was that extra thing of – I’m not used to having to “out” myself.

Søren

Mhmm.

Bryan

And bed shopping for anybody is a weird thing, because it’s like –

Søren

Private.

Bryan

It’s something personal. So I finished off the process of answering all those questions and I got down on the bed. It said, “Lay on the bed” – it was going to go through some other kind of test or whatever. And then this screen came down into my face and started bombarding me with images and ads and stuff. And I said, “Okay, this is too much. I’ve gotta go.”

So I left, and then when I left I was like, “Dang, I should have stayed just to see where that was gonna go.” Because it seemed pretty funny.”

Søren

Right!

Bryan

At that time, I was doing that screenwriting workshop, and I was like, “Oh, well this is what I want to write my short about.” Because it’s the perfect concept for a short. I mean, it could be a little bit too much in terms of the production [costs] piece of it. But I thought what the heck – just write it!

And so I actually spent three months writing it, and getting feedback, and workshopping it. And it was just a 14 page long script. I did that in the fall and decided I actually wanted to go ahead an shoot it. So I casted it, did all the location scouting, everything like that. We shot it in Northampton and Turner’s Falls [Massachusetts] in January.

Søren

So it’s a lot more personal than I’d –

Bryan

It goes back awhile!

Søren

Yeah! I had no idea it was so grounded in reality. I was watching it thinking it was a conceivable situation, although it does go into the almost sci-fi realm with the computer. But apparently the computer was a real thing, just not quite as advanced as it is in the short?

Bryan

Yeah, the original was just – as I said – an old computer hooked up to the bed. But we decided to imagine an almost futuristic, where it could happen now – the technology is there. So the bed becomes a “smart bed,” basically –

Søren

(Laughs.)

Bryan

(Laughs.) The bed itself is like a giant iPad and interacts with the main character in that way.

Søren

And there’s no reason to assume that won’t be a thing in the near future.

Bryan

Definitely.

Søren

So that leads to a completely different question. Now that you’re turning this short into a series – and the short was very personal based on something that happened to you – is it weird making these other episodes that could have happened to you, but aren’t directly related to your past? Because I know you’ve handed off the reins to other writers, right?

Bryan

Yeah, I’ve basically come up with the concepts, or the themes that I want to include in the different stories. And basically what I want to include in the season – what the episodes are going to be like – they’re all going to be like short films that can stand on their own that just expand on the characters of Corey and Nelson (the two guys that were in the bed store). And they’re both kind of quirky and neurotic in their own way. And funny.

So it’s based on themes that could be universal; it doesn’t have to necessarily do with a gay couple. But also things that are unique to a gay couple that’s getting married – now with this option option of gay people able to be married, which is great.

Søren

Right right, sure.

Bryan

And then sets of things that come along with that. But so it’s all going to be shorts, and I’m co-writing them with everyone. That’s how it’s been working so far. I’ve been basically collaborating with them.

Søren

Oh, okay. So your fingerprints are on them.

Bryan

Yeah, exactly. I haven’t been comfortable enough to completely give up an episode yet to somebody. Maybe next season I’ll be able to do that. It’s a learning process for me, too, you know? I want to get better at the craft of writing and short form, and directing, as well. But it all comes with this incredibly talented crew and cast who bring it up to this level that I could never have dreamed of. It’s good. It’s good stuff.

Søren

That’s great. So how does the original short fit into The Webseries? Is it going to be the pilot, or…?

Bryan

Well, originally we weren’t going to be releasing it until later. But with the Kickstarter, we realized that if there are people out there who haven’t seen the film, how are they going to feel that this is going to be a project that’s worth giving to?

Søren

Absolutely.

Bryan

So we decided to release it, and now it’s out there for people to see. So I guess that is kind of the pilot. Although like I said, all of them can exist on their own. They don’t have to be seen in any specific order. We’re going to see how that goes, if that’s something people will respond well to, or if they’re going to need this continuity or arc throughout the season.

But I think now, with the advent of webseries, the democratization of the medium with crowdfunding sources gives us a lot of freedom of thinking differently and outside the box in terms of how we present stories. So that’s pretty exciting.

Søren

So there isn’t a continuity to the episodes? Do they ever refer to each other? Or is it all really self-contained?

Bryan

Yeah, I mean there are characters that come in and out throughout it. And there’s a basic storyline going on. But it’s not like you have to watch Episode 1 to understand Episode 3. You can enjoy them all on their own.

Søren

Is your plan for release to release them all at once, or are you going to stagger it?

Bryan

That’s a good question. I’m going to ask around and see how people feel about all of that. I know there are a lot of people who like that anticipation thing and having something come out every Thursday, or whatever. But I guess the new way the Orange is the New Black –

Søren

The Netflix model.

Bryan

Yeah.

Søren

They binge-watch all at once, crazy.

Bryan

What do you think about that?

Søren

Well, the problem with that is you finish the season, and all you want is more. But because it wasn’t staggered, now it’s like a very short burst of awesome and then you have to wait a year –

Bryan

(Laughs.) Exactly.

Søren

– for the next one. So there’s a tradeoff, I think.

Bryan

Definitely, yeah. The biggest challenge is the availability of the cast. The two main actors are from New York, and people are coming from all over. We already shot the first two episodes because we had funding from the awards money and screening fees from the festivals.

So we have the first two in the can, haven’t edited them yet. But the challenge is just getting everyone together. It could be stretched out over a few months.

Søren

That brings me to another question. How was the original short received?

Bryan

The original short was received really well!

Søren

It’s a great short!

Bryan

Oh, thank you. At first I submitted it to top-tier festivals, and I was disappointed it didn’t – I submitted to Sundance, South by Southwest and Tribeca. And it’s really hard to get into those festivals.

Søren

(Laughs.) Yeah.

Bryan

Like, it’s super exclusive. But then it started getting into – it got into the Seattle International Film Festival, which is the largest festival in North America. And it won the “audience favorite” award, which was shocking to me.

Søren

Wow, nice!

Bryan

I went to that festival, and saw these incredible films. The whole festival lasted a month. So I came home, I was back here for a month and I got a phone call saying that we won the audience award for that, and I was driving and had to pull over to the side of the road for like an hour –

Søren

(Laughs.)

Bryan

It was so exciting. So it was in that, it was in a bunch of other festivals in the states. And then it started making its way over to Europe. And once it got into the top to LGBT film festivals in the United States, which is Frameline in San Francisco and Outfest in L.A., it was kind of like… everyone looks to those for their programming.

It was just constantly people getting in touch with me and me having to send it out for like a year. Which is kind of like a part-time job, dealing with that, and you’re not really getting paid. So it was a lot of work for your craft, for your love.

Søren

It sounds like it found a home in a niche sort of festival run. Is that correct?

Bryan

It ended up getting into a lot of LGBT film festivals, but it was also, like, a crossover, I guess you could call it. Because it was also in Woodstock Film Festival, and New Orleans Film Festival, and Rhode Island Film Festival. So not LGBT film festivals, just indie. Which is cool, because I think it’s rare for that to happen and to get such a positive response.

Søren

Something I’ve noticed about Spooners and what seems to be the rest of The Webseries is that you seem to have a sense of humor about these situations. How do you think humor plays into your storytelling? Does make the material more accessible?

Bryan

Hmm, I don’t know. I mean, in terms of the humor piece of it, the kind of shorts that I like to watch – and I think a lot of people like to watch – are ones that are entertaining, as opposed to a serious short. When I sit down and watch a webseries, it’s because I want to just sit down and have a laugh.

Søren

Right, right.

Bryan

Because the two actors in the film, Walter Replogle and Ben Lerman, are comedic actors, it just lends itself to that. There’s a lot of improvisation and creative play with the ideas of the scripts. And so I think that laughing, and laughing at ourselves, is a great way of getting through to people. So yeah, I hope it does make it more accessible to a broader audience. Plus, I think the things we’re going for are universal issues that people face in relationships.

Søren

The content is certainly relatable enough. I was just thinking of shows like Seinfeld, which deal with universal issues but also very Jewish issues, in a lot of ways. But that show had a lot of appeal beyond the Jewish community.

Bryan

Right.

Søren

And in fact, I think when the pilot for that show was shown to producers, there was one who said, “Too New York, too Jewish.” And admittedly, perhaps the pilot wasn’t the best example of the show. But perhaps the humor let it transcend its community-specific origins. So I think you’re doing something very similar, from what I’ve seen of Spooners.

Bryan

Yeah, and I think that whatever lens you’re coming from, whatever your background is, you’ll see something different in it. Like, gay people will get some of the humor that straight people wouldn’t and vice versa. So I think it’ll have pretty large appeal. I’m hoping, anyway.

Søren

I think there’s a huge advantage to that. It happens in movies all the time. There are scenes in Coen Brothers films that a Jewish audience might get that someone else might not find as funny, or in a Scorsese film there might be some throwaway Italian joke for the Italian audiences. But I think that as long as there’s enough content and humor otherwise, it lends itself to palatability.

Bryan

Right, we’re really trying to strike a balance with this, in terms of humor that could be a little bit bawdy or whatever. Or a little bit immature. (Laughs.) Mixed with heartfelt stories and connections about people where you can relate on that level. So hopefully we’ll strike that balance.

Søren

I really think that’s what you’re doing with this short. I mean, it’s about very real and mature themes balanced with bawdy humor that gives a sort of “in” into this world.

On that note, what drew you to making films about social change and the LGBT community? And what role do you think they play in affecting social consciousness?

Bryan

When you just think about where the world is right now, just specifically talking about LGBT issues, there was this gay couple in Philadelphia that was attacked by a mob of 20-something young people who went to a Catholic school.

Søren

Oh yes, I heard about that.

Bryan

Hearing that is shocking to me. I grew up in the Philadelphia area; those people who attacked the gay couple were from the same county that I grew up in.

Søren

Oh wow.

Bryan

Yeah. So that made me feel like, “Wow.” The reason that there needs to be more stories out there is so that people can see that we’re not just one-dimensional. That we have dimension, that we are human. So the more you can humanize a community that’s been oppressed, with a wide audience (hopefully more people will see it), I guess in the end people will laugh and that type of violence and mentality will go away. So in a nutshell, that’s what it’s about. It’s about humanizing us.

I like to thing we already are, but when something like that happens, you’re like, “Sh*t. I guess that’s not the case.”

Søren

I hear that. And this is just on a personal note, but when I hear about Jewish communities being attacked in Europe… It can be hard – it’s really hard – being a part of a smaller minority.

So with Spooners: The Webseries, what is the take home message? What do you hope to achieve? You mentioned a second season –

Bryan

Yeah, you know – it all depends on how the first season flies. That’ll be reflected in how many views it gets. That’s what really matters, in the end: how many people watch it, how many people share it. It would be great if it continued on, or if it was picked up by a network that let us have creative freedom with it but paid for us to make it.

Søren

Of course.

Bryan

That’s the hard part, the funding. So if funding came again in an easier way, it would be great to just continue it and keep up with the idea and keep up with the collaboration.

Søren

I know you’re not really sure how you’re releasing this, but is this really something you’re looking to pitch to a network? Or are you just keeping Spooners on Youtube?

Bryan

Well, we’re putting the first season on Youtube. I think these days, if I’m not mistaken, networks now look to webseries for concepts to develop them into series for their networks. Like Broad City, for example.

Søren

Did that begin as a webseries?

Bryan

Yeah, it began as really short episodes an then it was picked up for Comedy Central, I think. So it would be great – the best of both worlds – if that happens. But I guess we’re just taking it one step at a time.

Søren

Right, exactly! (Laughs.)

Bryan

(Laughs.) And hopefully we’ll all like each other by the end of the first season.

Søren

Yeah, that is a huge factor. So whether or not this series does well, is this the type of storytelling you’d want to do in the future? Maybe with a different couple, or series, but in the same vein?

Bryan

Well like I said, I’m continuing to work on the craft and getting better at writing and directing. I would love to do a feature film, so that’s something I  –

Søren

Hopefully in your future?

Bryan

Yeah, at some point. I could possibly move on to that. But different topics, not necessarily the same topic.

Søren

Sure. And on “different topics,” you mentioned the deaf community. I know that’s something you’re very interested in. Your Kickstarter video even has captions on it, which isn’t something I’ve seen before! How does that play into your filmmaking style and the topics you want to address in your projects?

Bryan

I would love to do a feature film collaborating with a deaf director or a deaf producer, with a really good script that has content with deaf characters. Because it’s such a rich – I mean, the deaf community and deaf culture is vibrant. There are so many important stories that deaf people need to tell, and there isn’t the same level of access for deaf people to make films.

There are a lot of great deaf independent filmmakers now who are working their way out more into the mainstream. But yeah, that would be fabulous. Actually, the character of Nelson in the webseries is going to be a sign language interpreter. So in that way, I’m working in deaf family members, deaf characters who are going to be interacting with these guys. That’s something I’m really excited about because there’s a lot of fertile territory there.

Søren

Talking to Mike, he’s often interested in things like that when they show up in films and stuff. And it’s not often – you have Four Weddings and a Funeral, which has the deaf brother, or Fargo that has a deaf character. But there’s not a lot out there, so that dimension of the greater community is lost. And the other piece is the accessibility of these films to the deaf community. So I think that’s a valuable thing to pursue.

Bryan

I also really like to encourage film festivals to be accessible. There are so few on the circuit that made the effort to get open-captioned films. It was really disheartening knowing that there’s a lot of deaf people out there who would love to go to festivals, but can’t. I would love to see a standard set for making films that you automatically have a version that’s open-captioned as an option for film festivals to show. There’s a couple of festivals that made sure [to do that] – like ImageOut, in Rochester.

Søren

I think it’s safe to say that Spooners: The Webseries will have subtitles?

Bryan

Oh yeah. And it’s great – I don’t know if people are aware of this, but Youtube has the ability to put in captions pretty easily.

Søren

Yeah, it’s easy to put them in, and easy to turn them on or off as you want.

Bryan

It’s pretty awesome.

Søren

Yeah, it’s phenomenal. So to conclude, and I know it’s kind of a broad question, but I’ve talked to quite a few indie directors who have crowdfunded their projects, but not quite on this scale. How do you feel about the web-based model for filmmaking? What sort of freedoms has that allowed you? And how viable do you think it is for production?

Bryan

We wouldn’t have been able to make [the original] Spooners without Kickstarter. It was just too much of a high-concept production to be able to afford it, unless I’d saved money for years and years and years. So I think it’s fantastic. Everyone giving a little bit and hopefully feeling like what they’ve given is worthwhile in the end.

And I hope we’re doing that with Spooners. The caliber of films that are able to be made with a variety of voices and perspectives wouldn’t happen without this. So I’m all for it. And the way we’re doing this season is with crowdfunding, as well.

Søren

How do you think this affecting the industry? Do you think this is going to give more voices to communities that might not have had that soapbox before?

Bryan

Definitely. Also the way that it’s affecting what’s being produced is also coming from people who are a lot younger. When I got out of college, there was no such thing as crowdfunding. At that point I had to try and find work in production for other people. But now it’s really letting people set out and do their own films right out of college, or before you finish college, and do work on a really high caliber. So it’s definitely empowering people from different types of backgrounds. You still need connections, of course –

Søren

Well that’s always going to be true.

Bryan

Right. But yeah, it’s definitely evening out the playing field for people. The problem I think is still how things are being distributed, because it’s so hard to get distribution once you’ve made the work. The next thing is going to be what type of online distribution platform are we going to see now that brings all of this work together and is able to show it in an efficient way that’s easy to use.

Søren

Like a crowdfunded Netflix or something.

Bryan

Like Netflix. Have you heard of IndieFlix?

Søren

Mike told me about it awhile back.

Bryan

I just found out about IndieFlix, and there are a couple of other ones. So they’re starting to develop different kinds of apps and sites and stuff so you can watch them on Xbox and Roku and stuff like that. I think that’s now going to follow because there’s gotta be a platform for all of these films being made.

Søren

For all the content, right. And do you think this will show Hollywood or studios that there’s an audience for, say, a series about a gay couple hunting for beds and going about their daily life?

Bryan

(Laughs.) Yeah, I think they probably already know that there’s an audience for that because there’s so much money in the gay community.

Søren

(Laughs.) Well there you go.

Bryan

So for that reason… But I don’t know! I guess so. What’s happening now is exciting and is really going to change the whole scene in terms of Hollywood and indie films.

Søren

And as they say, the numbers don’t lie – so if you’ve got a couple million views, you’ve got a couple million views. That’s money they could be making.

Bryan

Yep. So the other thing is figuring out how we can make money from the content that we’re producing, because we’re getting by on a shoestring budget. We’re barely able to pay people, but then people get to to enjoy it, often for free. So how is it that we can also get paid what we deserve? That’s the challenge. How can we monetize something, not so we can become rich, but so we can get paid for our art?

Søren

To break even, yeah.

Bryan

If you know of a way that people are making money on a webseries, let me know because I haven’t figured it out. (Laughs.)

Søren

(Laughs.)

Bryan

For me now it’s just about the creativity of it, and the art, and the collaboration. But it would be nice to get paid.

Søren

Of course! But I think that what you’re doing is important and hopefully you’ll get compensated for it. But even if you don’t, at least you’ll be making a statement with this series. So congratulations on a good start to your Kickstarter. I hope it pans out!

Bryan

Thanks, Søren. I really appreciate this interview.

Søren

It was my pleasure.

Remember that you can find the original Spooners short on Youtube, and that you can donate to the new Kickstarter here.

~ Søren